#458 How to develop your intuition and balance it with the rational mind, with psychologist Katie Turner.

Have you ever wondered if your intuition could be a powerful guide in your life decisions?

In this episode, we delve into the intriguing world of intuition with Katie Turner, a psychologist who seamlessly blends the science of psychology with holistic and spiritual practices. Whether you’re curious about enhancing your intuitive gifts or seeking healing from past traumas, Katie’s insights offer a fresh perspective on integrating intuition into everyday life.

1. Discover practical steps to develop and trust your intuition, even if you’re just starting out.

2. Learn how balancing rational thinking with intuitive knowing can lead to more authentic and fulfilling life choices.

3. Hear Katie’s transformative journey from a purely scientific approach to embracing spiritual awakenings, offering hope and guidance for your own path.

Tune into this episode to uncover the secrets of enhancing your intuition and aligning with your true purpose. Listen now and start your journey towards a more intuitive and empowered life!

˚

𝗞𝗘𝗬 𝗣𝗢𝗜𝗡𝗧𝗦 𝗔𝗡𝗗 𝗧𝗜𝗠𝗘𝗦𝗧𝗔𝗠𝗣𝗦

(01:05) - Exploring Intuition and Spiritual Awakening

(09:30) - Developing Intuitive Guidance and Trust

(22:07) - Navigating Psychology and Spiritual Awakening

(29:05) - Nature's Silence

˚

𝗠𝗘𝗠𝗢𝗥𝗔𝗕𝗟𝗘 𝗤𝗨𝗢𝗧𝗘

"You are going to figure it out. It'll be okay."

˚

𝗩𝗔𝗟𝗨𝗔𝗕𝗟𝗘 𝗥𝗘𝗦𝗢𝗨𝗥𝗖𝗘

https://katieturnerpsychology.com/

˚

Want to be a guest on Personal Development Mastery?

Send Agi Keramidas a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/personaldevelopmentmastery

˚

Transcript

Agi Keramidas: 0:35

In this episode, 458 you will discover how to develop your intuition, and also how to balance intuition with logic with the rational mind. Welcome to personal development mastery, the podcast that helps intelligent, busy professionals develop self mastery and discover their calling so you can thrive in a fulfilling, purposeful life. I'm your host, Agi Keramidas. By listening to this episode, you are going to learn practical steps to develop and trust your intuition, whether you're just starting out or you're experienced, and you'll also discover how balancing rational thinking with intuitive knowing can lead to more authentic and fulfilling life choices. Before we dive in, remember mastery seeker, if you want to go deeper into the actionable insights of the episode, join us at our free community mastery seekers tribe. Today. It is my real pleasure to speak with Katie Turner. Katie you are a registered psychologist, author and speaker who blends the science of psychology with holistic and spiritual practices. You are passionate about empowering individuals who develop their intuitive gifts, heal from trauma and navigate their spiritual journey and spiritual awakenings with integrity. Katie, welcome to the show. It's such a pleasure to speak with you today.

Katie Turner: 2:21

Yeah. Thank you so much for having me here.

Agi Keramidas: 2:24

Katie, the main thing, or the main topic that I would like to discuss with you today is intuition. Of course, that's a huge topic on its own, but I will leave this as you know, maybe the lens through which we can approach this conversation before we go there, I was reading your story, and there are some Really fascinating elements and transitions, even with belief systems that transition. So there was the point that I would like really to to hear the story or the transition, or how things changed for you after that was when you had the you call it spiritual awakening. So I'm very curious to take us back to that moment and what happened, how things changed.

Katie Turner: 3:22

Yeah, I think it was, it definitely wasn't just one moment. It was an evolution and unfolding over time. But a bit about my story is I was more Western psychology. First, I didn't have a strong religious or spiritual background, more science, material world based of you know, if people have belief systems that help give them comfort, almost like a placebo effect, great, I'm sure it's helpful. But didn't really know. Didn't believe too much one way or the other. Myself, wasn't really sure, and it was now, looking back, I know that I was actually kind of doing a lot of practices that can increase spiritual awakening symptoms, but I didn't know it at the time, so things like meditation, breath work, other like energy healing modalities, just exploring things. I experienced burnout after early years in the profession, and spent, ended up getting a one way ticket, and spent close to a year in Indian Nepal, and that's where it started opening up. And then my own intuitive abilities started opening up more there. So I think this spiritual awakening is more it shows up differently for every person, but it's really more of a connection. I often explain it as it's beyond it's not just your rational mind doing a pros and cons list, or this is maybe the reasoning why we would believe in something else. It's almost like a profound experience where we know or there's experience of a connection with something so much bigger than ourselves, whether you call it universe, God, Spirit, but it's really transformational experiences or series of experience, because I've, I've lived in both worlds, and I 100% get it. If someone just would have explained to me when I was at that state of consciousness, I'd be like, that's nice that you had that experience. Cool. Maybe I can tally that on there's maybe something here, but it wouldn't really change how I experienced or believed. I've had enough experiences with it now that I'm like, there's definitely something to this. I don't think our brain can fully comprehend the quantum world completely, but yeah, it's definitely as my intuition started opening up more and more. More then, then I realized there's more. Like we're not just these individual minds. It's not just conscious thoughts. There's this whole field of energy that can impact us in different ways depending on what our own gifts are, what our own abilities are,

Agi Keramidas: 5:52

and knowing what you know now, since you mentioned it, if you could meet yourself before you had the change, when you were very much focused on, you know, the rational mind and the logic and you know the you are a scientist, the scientific so what's something that will you would tell her to, perhaps persuade her to look at things in a more broad way

Katie Turner: 6:20

honestly. I don't think she would have believed anything. She would have but it happened, so maybe it was meant to her soul contract, I don't know, but I mean, there must have been something within me that led me, even drew me to to that path of the unknown to explore. Didn't know what it was at the time, but yeah, because I get it, I don't think it's a rational piece. I'd probably say more experiment with this. If, for anyone who's curious about it, it's a it's an ability that, like any ability, some people are born stronger, maybe athletically, with math, music, intuition, similar, but we hear a lot of stories about intuition, of someone who's almost psychic from birth, and they're talking to deceased relatives and angels. And it's, it's like, no, that's, I don't have that. But because I never would have believed I'd be doing the work I am now. I wouldn't have thought it was even real, let alone that I would be good at it. So I think it's also a skill like any other of the more we learn to listen to how our intuition shows up for us, the more it stronger it gets, the more it evolves over time. And it's a skill we can develop so and it's very like it can be such a helpful to source of guidance to have, in combination with our logical mind,

Agi Keramidas: 7:42

definitely, and I'm very happy you mentioned that also, let's go back, because you said that you use the word skill to develop it as A skill. So I would like to hear some practical, some something practical that one can do to develop that skill. Let's, let's assume that you know, for the point of the question, I would like you to share with us some practice for someone who's at early stages of, you know, just experimenting or developing the intuition, and also with someone that has much more experience, they trust their intuition, but they know, of course, that there is a next level.

Katie Turner: 8:32

Yeah, so early wise, it's some of the big things are making space for that kind of noise to come in, because it's not a logical mind exercise. So we first need some time when we're out of our thinking brain, okay, and over rational thinking. So meditation walks in nature where you're not listening to a podcast or not engaging your rational mind. It's just the sounds of nature might be meditative music, stuff where that knowing can kind of come in is important. Paying attention to it is a big one too. So keeping a journal can be helpful to record synchronicities, signs, things, dreams, things. You're not sure intuition, but you can look back over over time to see, does this? Is Is there some kind of pattern here for many people? And this is, was also my story as well, because our society is so rational mind dominant, and we kind of dismiss intuitive knowing. From such an early age, many people learn that there's something real or curious, that there's something there when they don't listen to it, and our rational mind overrides, like a bad feeling that sense about someone kind of a warning, and we talk ourselves out of it. And then later, most people have an experience like that, or a few and of course, so for me, that was when I first was realized there's something here like this. Isn't me being anxious or paranoid. Like this actually turned out to be a true gut feeling of picking up on there was more going on than meets the eye. And so sometimes even reflecting on those kind of situations can be helpful too. Of how did it show up for you? I made it. I put up a free quiz on my website because it's not scientifically validated. It's more for fun, but knowing which gateway your intuitive senses come through in terms of sensory information is a helpful starting point, because for some people, it might be things jumping out in our visual field, or like imagination in mind's eye. For some it's a quiet kind of voice or knowing or things jumping. Out auditory information, overhearing a snippet of conversation, turn on the radio, something, and it seems to the sensory experience is a bit different in the moment, you can often get really present. You might even get goosebumps or body sensations. It seems to be speaking to you. And so for me, I was more empathic at first, so I felt energy, physical and emotional sensations in my own body. And I didn't realize for most of my life that, like, everything I was feeling wasn't all mine, sometimes I was actually feeling stuff for other people. So that's a trickier one to work with. It's I do feel it's a gift now, but I validate for people. Of I'm like, This one sucks. We had a choice. I wouldn't take it first, because there is a lot of work to do, to learn. Just check in. Are we taking on other people? Is this even our energy or not? And I find that's kind of a limitation with Western psychology. It really treats everything like it's the conscious mind and just the individual. And sometimes there's these layers of energy that people are actually sensitive to, and their right, their emotions or things they're going through may not actually be all theirs to process. There's, there's usually an element of something of ours is getting activated in that. But, yeah. I mean, that's a whole other kind of topic there. But I'd say, Yeah, find your dominant sense, practice that explore it, meditate, kind of segueing into the advancing your ability in it is it helps to start with things that are really emotionally neutral for you. So you know, what do I feel about this meeting today or like this person I haven't met? What impressions Am I getting about going to this person's house I've never seen before, we can more easily tap into that and also get a sense of real world. Validation of is what we're picking up our impressions, what is real and what is our rational mind jumping in and filling in the blanks with? Because our minds really good at making stories and filling in things. It's helpful in certain areas. It can take us off intuition wise and but we usually want intuition because it's such a helpful guidepost to have when we have high emotional stakes decisions to make. We want the answer of, like, do I stay in the job? The relationship like, do I move here or here? And the emotionally charged ones are the hardest ones to really get personal guidance on, so we need to do that foundational work ahead of time to really build that connection, because it's so hard to get it in that moment. It's like trying to learn how to calm, calm yourself when you're in the middle of a panic attack and you've never practiced any breathing strategies before. I

Agi Keramidas: 13:21

I think, in a situation where you have to make a very difficult decision that you were just saying, when, if you are lucky, in that case, to both have your rational mind and your intuition telling you the same thing that's great. More often than not, I think we find ourselves in the opposite situation, where our intuition and our fears mind, or the whatever the all the conscious mind, the mind has a very different opinion. So my question was, and I think you said you used the phrase that the rational mind overrides that, which is, I know very well how that feels. I have experienced it. So my question is about distinguishing in that case, then the two, especially, you know, when we are in, as you said, in a an emotional the big decision. I understand now that, of course, you need to build up to it, but let's say that someone has not had that chance, and now he's faced with a decision right now, when they listen to this,

Katie Turner: 14:48

yeah, there's a few things I'd say for that. I mean, for one, I would never recommend somebody make big life changing decisions on intuition alone, if they don't have the trust built in it. It's just like, if you don't have a lot of trust with a person, don't get married to them, don't go into a business partnership until you have some history. A lot of times there's like, just trust the process and just trust your intuitive knowing it's not that easy. I have a lot of trust in it. I still don't 100% trust it all the time, because you're getting into almost quantum realm, and it's not, it's not black or white. It's there's possibilities. It doesn't always play out. So it's our rational mind should be involved too, and I will take bigger leaps of faith now that I have established trust with it over time and had the feedback loop of this was helpful to listen to, and I've regretted it when I don't. But that feedback loop and experience is important too. So sometimes people get an intuitive knowledge and jump off a cliff with no rational support at all. And it can put them in a tricky situation. It's like, Oh, I feel this calling to quit my job, and I have zero plan. I don't know what I'm going to do, and I just quit tomorrow. Not always a good idea. And intuition can give us flashes of things not it doesn't mean immediate. Sometimes it's this might play out over decades. The other side with it too is when it is because intuition is almost instead of going to the outer world, we're going within for answers. And what's that knowing within ourselves, we can always ask for kind of signs and synchronicities, like put it out as a request, see what comes through. And the other part that's it is a process, and it's ongoing work. To distinguish, I do a lot of this one on one with people, is when it's pure, intuitive knowing it should be very calm and neutral, even if our rational mind does not like the answer at all. It's just like this, just is what it is. Yes, there's not emotion attached to it, or there's calm or peace, or just knowing. So anytime we have fear based reactions panic like we're not at pure intuition yet. And we're also going within to tune into those like subtle sensory information. But it'll also bring our attention to there may be something I'll almost compare it to with a radio station. You're turning the dial to get the right signal. Sometimes we'll tune in and we'll notice the static on the line, and we can't get a clear intuitive feeling, because it's like, there's just, there's disruption, there's there's fear, there's a block, there's don't even look at this, and so there's also, for someone who really wants to develop this and have this connection in their life, I do think doing deeper healing work for ourself is part and parcel of that journey, because it'll bring up, like all the stuff within us that blocks an answer, and it's All our subconscious and unconscious mind is all about protecting us and keeping us safe. Sometimes it's stored emotional memory from the past. Our brain makes very quick connections. Evolutionary wise, we needed to do that, like people who overreacted to a stick on the ground, and it's not a snake. They were more likely to live than people who didn't like didn't take the risk there, and it actually was a poisonous snake. So we're still these spiritual beings in a human body, and sometimes spiritual communities can kind of bypass the body and the brain part, and we need to work with all of it. So sometimes it's more if we can't get a clear answer, there may be more work to do, of like, what's actually coming up for me? What is this emotion? How old or young is it? What beliefs might be here and we may we need. Because as we work and clear those out of the way, then the intuitive knowing can just come

Agi Keramidas: 18:24

in, just to enhance someone's imagination. Now let me ask you, what are the most, let's say extraordinary things or transformations that you have witnessed, not necessarily to yourself, but also to others when they started really following and being guided by their intuition.

Katie Turner: 18:50

Yeah. So I never share client stories just because of confidentiality, kind of reason. So I share general themes, or I should, I will share more about my own journey. I think for me, my interest is pretty developed at this point now, too. I never would want that to replace anyone else's for their own experience. I do think we all have our own inner compass, and people can help us connect with that for ourselves, but they should not be a substitute for it. So I mean, even the work I do now very strongly, intuitively, led and guided. I make every major decision now with intuition on board, it definitely helps in times of uncertainty and change. And I feel like the world has more and more of that happening, and it seems to be speeding up. So when there's when we can't control the outside world, it really helps to have this sense of connection with something, something bigger than us that can kind of guide us and give us what we need to know and have trust in that of I may not have all the answers, I may not know, but if I follow, if I'm connected to myself, if I follow this like it's going to be okay, even when it doesn't feel okay, I think I mean people, as they connect more and more with it, sometimes it might be I think you it really one of the biggest benefits is it helps you really design a life and know what's really authentic to you and what's going to be the path for you that is most fulfilling, most purposeful. It's not always easy, like there's often a lot of things we need to confront and, like, work we need to do on that way. It's not a consumer capitalist piece of like, climb the ladder, get the things, have your life in this way, but it's more of a soul unfolding of purpose and meaning. So I've seen people start companies and, like, blow industry standards away when they're they're because they're. Doing it differently, and they're very connected with this intuitive guidance and almost a different energy of how to bring things into the world. It might even be just people who are cycle breaking in their own families who are really called to do things differently, to like to be the person they want to be, to lead with love. I've seen clients avoid probably hundreds of 1000s of dollars in, like, court process fees, because they've really worked with what's coming up and, like, their own piece and almost, you know, took the high road in a way. And that's not always possible. Every situation is different. But yeah, you know, people might advance in their career, but it's more advancing towards meaning and purpose and and also, I also do believe in stability of like being in the material world and and something beyond,

Agi Keramidas: 21:24

I like what you said about the advancing towards meaning and purpose. When you say stability. Can you explain that to me in what sense stability? Yeah,

Katie Turner: 21:34

because I think sometimes if the material world or consumer base can go so far into the material that it's only about money and it's all about achievement, success and the research money does make a difference in happiness. If we can't meet our basic needs and if we're insecure about basic things, it makes a huge difference. Beyond that, it doesn't reliably. It's a much more complicated relationship, and there's many things, like, Money cannot buy. Sometimes, if people go too far into the spiritual sometimes they can. There can be a risk of bypassing the material reality, of like, I just need to dream about this or manifest it, or I'm just getting this and just meditating all day, but not actually taking any concrete action and not also, sometimes it can go too far in terms of, you know, I want to do the spiritual business. I have no idea what it is. I have no business plan. I've just quit, and now I'm in a super stressed out position that doesn't support your nervous system. So again, I'm all about, like, spiritual being in human body, human nervous system, and really working with all, all of the parts, not just one or the other.

Agi Keramidas: 22:41

That's great. Thank you for for that answer. There is, actually there is, I will switch gears Katie for a bit, because there was something else that I found very fascinating, the fact that you are a psychologist with, you know, the background of the Western the traditional scientific background. And I I smiled when I was reading in your story about some of the things that you were experiencing as a result of your spiritual journey, that the DSM five, the manual, the diagnosing, a statistical manual for mental disorders that psychology is, you know, uses it. There were some descriptions there that certainly did not sound like a saying for me, I understand too. So I'm very curious to hear your thoughts or your reflections on this thing, I suppose it is controversial, of course, but yeah, you are a person that you have been on both sides of it, and you still are. So maybe you can for sure.

Katie Turner: 24:09

And I do have, I do want to say I didn't just go through a spiritual awakening and slap it on to psychology. I spent many, many years doing different trainings, mentorship, looking for, where are the ways that this already exists in psychology. There's evidence based to bring it in. So it wasn't, I wouldn't have been able to do that without that groundwork. And transpersonal psychology is a big part of that as well. So again, it's something that's not every psychologist has. It's more specialized, but it does deal with more of the spiritual awakening side. The DSM piece is interesting because Western Western psychology doesn't have a lot of places to put spiritual experiences, and as I was doing more research for my book, I was surprised, actually, like I realized how common it is because people often have these experiences, but kind of hold their cards close to their chest just for fear of like, are people going to think I'm crazy? Am I going to be discredited? This sounds really weird, so I think more, way more people have them than we realize. And it is one of the things that's been kind of shown that it's something that a significant portion of the population has experienced at one time or another. There was a US Gallup poll that it was about 41% rated, have you ever had a profound spiritual or religious experience that changed the course of your life like 41% rated that five out of five, the highest rating they could give it, which is not a small percent of the population. So other researchers have said too this spiritual. Connection piece seems to be one of the like, such a common experience, but one of the things science and research barely touches, like, really not studied. People who study it, some people have kind of stumbled on it and find it, but there is, I think I get why a lot of clients would be concerned. Of like, Who do I talk to about this? Because if you're talking about hearing or seeing things that aren't there, I mean, part of my awakening was I, I use it in work with people, where I can kind of hear what they're saying, but I can also read levels like see sense, feel stuff that's going on too. So it's like, this may not be all their energy. There may be ancestral things playing out. I've had mediumship abilities. I've had non ordinary states of consciousness, stuff like, I'm not I'm not always in that, but it's something that can happen. And I've had enough validation come through that I'm like, There's something here. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but I there's no way my rational mind would have known this with people I don't know. And so I think I the DSM kind of has a lot of times it can get spied to psychosis type or, like mental breakdown type symptoms, or there's a small section in the back that's like spiritual or otherwise concerns. It's a couple sentences long, so there's not a lot. And so I do think it's important where it and part of my reason for putting out the book, even though it is controversial, even though I do have concerns about, oh, what's, what's going to come from this? But in working with so many clients over the years too, when people are going through this, they often turn to Google, and you get most of the people actually talking very vocally about it, are not regulated at all. And there's some people who are great. But there is, I call it the wild west of information. Like, there's a lot of unbalanced stuff, there's a lot of well meaning that, like very concerning or harmful stuff. And then there's, there's a small percentage of the population that has, like, predatory personalities, just in the population that, as a whole, spiritual communities are not immune to that. So I think we need more people who we need more people contributing to the dialog. I would like it to be more normalized and validated many times, if people are grounded functioning in day to day world, if they have that discernment of the ego mind, to even say, to even realize, like, I can't talk to everybody about this. I need to be aware of how this is going to be received. There's some places I can share it. I can test that out. There's other places I may need to hold back a bit. It's not always a mental health episode at all. Sometimes it's very helpful, and it's a huge part of somebody's like life and support and resiliency. The other side of it too is there is a danger with some spiritual communities that are like this. Is all spiritual awakening is sometimes there is mental health stuff playing out as well. And I think that it can overlap. So it's such a case by case basis. And again, if there's a decline in functioning and ability to function in the 3d world, other symptoms that come along with that is, it's not always mental health, but sometimes there's an element of it. So it's not always safe to like to keep engaging in spiritual awakening practices.

Agi Keramidas: 28:47

Thank you. My only quick comment is when you said that there, there are a couple of sentences at the back of the book that talk about is the actual word psychology, which comes from I am Greek. So it comes from the word he, which means soul. So it starts from that. But however, the very origin of psychology has ended up two sentences at the back of them. So my only observation Katie words, would you like to direct the listener that has enjoyed the conversation and wants to find out more about you? Yeah.

Katie Turner: 29:33

So my website is Katie Turner psychology.com they can do the free quiz there and find out more about the book.

Agi Keramidas: 29:40

That's great. I have two quick questions that I will ask you Katie before I wrap up. And the first one is, what does personal development. Mean to you,

Katie Turner: 29:58

no. So for me, I mean, for me, it's really I'm a lifelong learner and a lifelong developer. I I think it's something where it's always that it's kind of a balance between, how do we be content and compassionate with ourselves? We're where we are now, knowing we're doing the best we can, not beating up on ourself, but also being able to continually grow and evolve, yeah, as our life goes on.

Agi Keramidas: 30:28

Absolutely. And a hypothetical question, if you could go back in time. Meet your 18 year old self. What's one piece of advice you would give her?

Katie Turner: 30:41

Oh, I don't know. I think I'd tell her. She's gonna figure it out.

Agi Keramidas: 30:49

That's great. I want to thank you very much, Katie for this conversation and the wisdom that you shared, and there were some practical things. And, you know, one thing that came to my mind that it is obvious, but I hadn't considered it in such a way when you were talking about working in nature, or having some silence, tuning out of, you know, the constant input of things. Of course, it does make sense that that's there is more space for you to observe the message that might come. So thank you very much for this conversation. I want to wish you all the very best in your personal and professional life. Thank you, and before I leave you for now, I have one last question for you, do you seek to master your life and live with purpose and fulfillment? I'm sure that by now you have realized that personal development is a lifelong journey, and it's great to be able to share this journey with like minded people to support and to be supported. Join our free community, the mastery seekers tribe, and be a part of a growing group of people who value personal development like you go to mastery seekerstribe.com Until next time stand out. Don't fit in.