#474 How conscious communication can revive intimacy in long-term relationships and 3 steps to rekindle the sexual spark, with Heather Shannon.

Are you struggling to reignite the passion in your relationship or wondering how to bring deeper consciousness to your sexuality?

In this episode, Agi speaks with Heather Shannon, a certified sex therapist, meditation guide, and host of the Ask a Sex Therapist podcast. They explore solutions for couples who feel disconnected and discuss how integrating emotional mastery, communication, and self-awareness can transform your relationship. Whether you're navigating a sexless marriage, facing personal insecurities, or seeking a deeper spiritual connection through intimacy, this episode is packed with actionable insights.

1. Discover Heather's Pathway to Passion, a practical framework with nine transformative steps to reignite intimacy in your relationship.
2. Learn how mastering emotional communication and realigning priorities can bring back the spark in committed relationships.
3. Gain a fresh perspective on the connection between sexuality and spirituality, breaking free from societal conditioning to embrace authentic self-expression.

Tune in now to gain expert insights and actionable tips to revitalize your relationship and create a more passionate and fulfilling connection with your partner.

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KEY POINTS AND TIMESTAMPS:

01:32 - Introduction and Guest Background  

02:59 - Why Heather Became a Sex Therapist  

08:36 - Common Challenges in Long-Term Relationships  

10:32 - The Pathway to Passion Framework  

16:48 - Communication Skills: The Softened Startup  

23:09 - Personal Development for Your Sex Life  

26:38 - Bringing Consciousness to Sexuality  

29:58 - Exploring the Energetic Elements of Sexuality  

34:58 - Heather’s Resources and Freebies  

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MEMORABLE QUOTE:

"Just get started, you don’t need to take a big step, you just need to take a step."

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VALUABLE RESOURCES:

Heather's website: https://heathershannon.co/

Mastery Seekers Tribe: https://masteryseekerstribe.com

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Want to be a guest on Personal Development Mastery?

Send Agi Keramidas a message on PodMatch, here: https://www.podmatch.com/hostdetailpreview/personaldevelopmentmastery

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Personal development inspiration, insights, and actions to implement for living with purpose.

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Transcript

Agi Keramidas: 0:00

In this episode, 474 you will discover how to reignite the passion and intimacy in your relationship and how to bring more awareness to your sexuality. Welcome to personal development, mastery, the podcast that helps intelligent, busy professionals develop self mastery and discover their calling so you can thrive in a fulfilling, purposeful life. I'm your host, Agi Keramidas. By listening to this episode, you are going to learn a practical framework with nine transformative steps to reignite intimacy in your relationship, you will also discover how mastering emotional communication and realigning priorities can bring back the spark in a committed relationship, Before we dive in. Remember my fellow mastery seekers. If you want to go deeper into the episode, join us at our free community, the mastery seekers tribe. For more, go to mastery seekers.com now let's get started Today, It is my real pleasure to speak with Heather Shannon. Heather, you are a certified sex therapist, health coach, meditation guide, and host of the Ask a sex therapist podcast with over 12 years in private practice, you specialize in helping couples in committed relationships who have lost their sexy spark to feel close and passionate again. You have a unique approach that integrates the physical and energetic aspects or elements of sexuality, and your expertise has been featured in publications as cosmopolitan women's health and glamor. Heather, I am delighted to speak with you today. Such a pleasure to have you here.

Heather Shannon: 2:01

Thank you, Agi. I appreciate it. I'm excited to hopefully help your audience bring some consciousness and and some pleasure and growth to their sex life. I

Agi Keramidas: 2:13

think it's so very important, and I'm very glad we're having this conversation. And there are two main things that I would like to explore today with you in this limited time we have together, otherwise there would probably be 20 more. But the two main ones that I would like to explore with you, one is you talk about bringing consciousness to sexuality. So that's one topic that I'm very much intrigued by. The other one is perhaps even more relatable to people, and that is, how can a committed couple that has lost their sexual life the spark that how they can they get it back? So these are the two, let's say main things I want to discuss today. Before we go there, I'm curious, just a quick question, what made you what wants to become a sex therapist? What was the motivation behind

Heather Shannon: 3:16

it's an interesting job, and it gets a lot of interesting reactions. When people are like, Oh, what do you do? And they're expecting me to be like, Oh, I'm a bookkeeper, librarian. I'm like, I'm a sex theorist. They're like, really. And so sometimes I'm like, Okay, it's just like, for me, it's just a normal job at this point, but, but yeah, so I have had a really interesting career path, and has not been straightforward. I have a finance degree. So I started out, and I started college as a math major, and then I switched to finance and and then I had my first job working as a market research analyst. And I thought it would be sort of like analyzing consumer behavior and, you know, getting into that kind of thing. And it was, it was just like, really boring and lots of data, and I was like, I just don't care. I was like, I don't mind working hard, but I just need to, like, care about what I'm doing and the impact I'm making. And so then I did. My dad's cousin had just become a life coach, which was really interesting, and I was so intrigued by that it was like the early 2000s when life coaching was brand new, and she coached me for 10 sessions about my career, just like for free to be a nice person. And so I got to see what coaching was all about. And then I also explored, do I want to be a school counselor? Do I want to do, like, private practice? So I kind of knew psychology of some kind was like the direction I was heading in. So I wound up volunteering at University of Chicago and some research, thinking I was going to get a PhD, and realized I hate research. There's a lot of trial and error in this path. I wound up getting a master's in school counseling because I figured that it actually paid a little bit more than community counseling, and you get summers off. And I liked working with teenagers, and I liked education. So I was like, oh. Okay, great. So I did that for six years, but still had the intention of, like, having a private practice. And so it actually took a classmate from grad school kind of being like, Hey, do you want to start a practice together? And and we did, and then she quickly decided she didn't want to be an entrepreneur, and I kept going with it. And and then along the way, in terms of, like, how did that turn into specializing in sexuality? It was some clients. There was a couple clients, that inspired me. And then looking back, it's like, the longer I do this work and reflect on my own, like lived experience, I see sort of all of these little like signs of like me eventually choosing this path. But what I realized, like long story short, with the clients, was that their discomfort with their sexuality, their sexual identity, like different ways maybe they wanted to express their sexuality led to them putting themselves in dangerous situations and substance abuse and and so it really hit home for me, like this is important, like, if they don't have a place where they can get comfortable with who they are and like, in alignment with how they want to express their sexuality, like they wind up, You know, blacked out and experiencing sexual assault, or, you know, getting murdered or kidnapped. I mean, I don't know what would happen, but, like, they're putting themselves, especially one of them was putting themselves in some pretty dangerous situations. So there was, there was that. And then I think with my own journey, I grew up Catholic and and I think just the culture in general, aside from the religion, because I went to public school for every year except for one. And yeah, it was kind of like this environment of, like, slut shaming. And, you know, this is bad if you're too sexual and you want to have a good reputation. And sort of like this, this version is pure and, like, holy and respectable. And then, like, this version is, you know, to be looked down on, and bad if you're a woman, at least, you know. And so there's some of that. And there was some just, like, discomfort with my body, like, I just told the story to my email list my mom, I was like, 12 or something. And my mom was like, we should get you a training bra. She was like, What size are you, Heather? It's like a 34 a and I was so mortified that I literally ran away from her in the Cole's department store and pretended like she was not my mom, because I was just like, I just cannot, I just cannot even believe you. Like yelled that across the department and Kohl's. So I was, like, deeply uncomfortable in a lot of ways, you know. And so I think I realized from my own journey that it was important too. And I had had a breakup and done some exploring myself, and I was like, yeah, yeah, I'm gonna help people with

Agi Keramidas: 7:59

this stuff. Thank you. I find it very interesting how often we are on a certain journey or path, because it is our own quest for answers or discoveries that drive us, and of course, we can also help others with that. So thank you very much. It was a very interesting that you, that you put it, let's begin with helping committed couples get the spark back. As you say, I think it is something that is relevant to many people. I don't know how many I was going to ask you, actually is how common it is for couples to in long relationship, to lose this sexual intimacy between them? Yeah,

Heather Shannon: 8:53

it, I would say it's probably the number one issue that sex therapists see. So it's quite common. I think the data on, like, what percentage of marriages are sexless marriages, meaning like they're having sex like once a month or less. I think it's about 20% so it's, it's pretty high. It's like millions of people in the country are affected by that. And I also think there's a lot of people who just go through phases of that. You know, it's like, life happens. You get really busy, maybe you have a new baby, maybe someone went through, like cancer or a major health issue. So I think there's also just like life situations that can throw people off track,

Agi Keramidas: 9:34

absolutely. And I think it is anyone that has been there, even for a period. And I like how you said that it might go through periods. I'm sure they can relate my my question is and really straight to the point, how can one, yeah, reverse that. How can they ignite? I like using, you use the word spark, and I like very much, because the spark creates the four. Five,

Heather Shannon: 10:03

I know, and I think we we all really want to feel wanted, and we all want to experience passion in our sex life with whoever it is we're connecting with. And so I've actually developed my own method at this point, called the pathway to passion. And it's, it's probably some of what people would expect, and probably not some of what people would expect. So there's three like tiers or levels to it, and three steps within each level, so nine total steps, but I start with people on emotional mastery, communication and getting their priorities aligned. So those are, like, the first three steps of the pathway. And the reason I start with that is because if we try to jump into, well, how do you want to be seduced? And like, what are your turn ons? Often feelings will come up. Sex can be a very sensitive subject for a lot of people. People will often feel like often there's one partner who has a higher drive or interest in sex, and maybe one who has a lower drive, and I'll often see people in that situation. So I think the person with the higher drive can also feel neglected and abandoned and frustrated and hurt, and there can be a lot of emotions there to manage, and the person with the lower drive sometimes feels guilty or broken or confused, of like, why they're not interested. Because, you know, the fact of the matter is, we're also just not taught about this, you know, like, and I was personally in a situation where, and I hear this from couples all the time, where it felt like sex was a chore. And I kind of made it a chore myself, because I was like, Ooh, this is a bad sign if we're, like, not at least having sex once a week or something like that. And so I was like, Okay, well, we, like, have to have it once a week, otherwise we're gonna, it's gonna, like, lead to the demise of our relationships. But it really was like a checkbox. It wasn't like a Oh, I feel so connected and amorous, you know, it was just kind of like, well, it's bad if we don't do this, so we should. So I think a lot of people feel that, so we start with the communication. And what I mean by the Align priorities is that people often say that they're and, you know, so I'm kind of calling out all of your listeners now, people will often say, Oh yeah, my relationship is really important. Oh yeah. And it's like, Well, does how you spend your time reflect that, and does how you spend your money reflect that? And so we can really look at like, are we putting our money where our mouth is? You know, it's like, we're saying it's important, but we're always on our phone. We're saying it's important, but we're spending all our time working. We're saying it's important, but we're spending all the money on, like the kids activities and family vacations and not doing date nights, you know? So it's, I think, I think that's a good reflection for people. If you're not feeling great about where your sex life is, to look at, are my priorities aligned? And part of the way I challenge people with that is, you know, to think about what trade offs are you willing to make? Because everything's a trade off, like we only have so much energy physically, we only have so many hours in a day. So what are you willing to let go of, to spend more of that on your relationship. So it might be like, Yeah, your kids activities are important, but maybe they each get two activities instead of five or three or whatever. Or it's like, okay, maybe we're currently spending a lot of time cleaning the house and just like doing chores. And it's like, okay, well, maybe are we willing to spend some money there to have someone else do it so we can buy, buy back some of our time, and then we can do a date night, and then we can have more quality time, or we can do some of the exercises that our sex therapist is recommending to us, because sometimes people hire me and and I'm like, You guys paid some good money For this coaching package that I do. I'm like, but you have to execute on it, you know, like, just hiring me doesn't solve it. You gotta do the work. So, so, yeah, so that's, that's kind of the setup of like, let's set ourselves up for success, you know, with mastering the emotions that come up with figuring out our priorities, and then the communication piece is, everyone kind of knows that's important, right? That's one of the things I hear from people, is just like, oh yeah, I know we need to work on our communication like, I know that's really important. And so, yes, it is, agree. So, so those are kind of the first few steps. I don't do you have any, like, thoughts or questions on those, or do you want me just keep

Agi Keramidas: 14:44

continuing? I actually have, and you said earlier about, like, very much, the steps as you described. And you know, you also mentioned the trade offs. You use the word trade offs, and also priorities, obviously. When we think about it, the one the things that we prioritize, or we say that we place high value on, yeah, they will require our time, our attention. So by not allocating any time for that and doing other things so it is, you know, often, and I liked how you said to reflect on on this question, so our what we do with our time reflects what our real values are, and not what we would perhaps like them to be. But anyway, that's that's one thing I wanted to say, but the step that I would really like to discuss in more in depth with you today, and you actually were going on with that anyway, is the communication bit. It is something that you mentioned earlier. The phrase you used was turn ons. You also use the word seduction. And for me, all those things and the way that they are communicating or being communicated can make a very big difference, or they can, you know, destroy the moment. So I would like to hear your wisdom on this. Thank

Heather Shannon: 16:10

you. So yeah, and so then, yeah, so those. So we went over the first three steps, and then I'll just briefly say steps 456, are body image, learning how desire works and consent, and like, creating a safe container. And then we get into 789, which is like the mental turn on, the physical turn on, and the sexual fantasies. And so, yeah, it's like to have a good discussion about your turn ons and fantasies. There needs to be that safe container, and there needs to be the communication skills. So that's why I do everything in the order I do it with the communication the number one thing that I think people could take away, like, if I could give like, one communication tip, it would be what the Gottman Institute calls the soften startup. So the Gottman Institute is for people who don't know. It's like a really, like, the foremost relationship Research Institute in the United States, they train probably at least half of the couple's counselors in the country. It's very like, well respected and sought after, and so I love that it's all sort of data based as well. So what they've discovered is that using this softened startup is a way to initiate a conversation prevents 90% of the escalating arguments. Like, that's like, very powerful. And it's the kind of, it's the idea of, like, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure and, and I'll give an example. So if somebody you know goes to their partner and they're just like, like, do you even care you know about our sex life? Like, I've been over here, like neglected and like, I want you, and I just feel like you don't want me at all. That's what I would call coming in hot. That's not the official technical term, but that's what I would call it. So, so you kind of got to be real with yourself. It's like, Am I coming in hot? Because if I am, you're not going to get a good result, like that conversation. Is not going to go well, right? Whereas a softened startup might be, babe, I love you so much, and I just like, want us to feel connected, and I know your drive is kind of lower right now, and at the same time, like, I want us to be able to talk about this, like, I want us to find a solution that, like, really works for both of us. So if you come in stating your positive intention, you're also kind of disarming your partner, so it becomes not, not impossible for them to be defensive, but much, much less likely, right? And so, like, that's what we want to teach, is like, How can I start the conversation by stating my positive intention, by complimenting my partner by having a softer tone. And I think a lot of the arguing actually comes up with people because they're telling themselves mentally that like, Oh, this is gonna go bad. Oh, this is a scary conversation. Oh, I have so many emotions, you know, before they even say anything. And when you're kind of psyching yourself out, you're gonna be more likely to say it unskillfully. So that's, that's my two cents on that. There's, there's a lot more with communication tips and skills. But it's like, if, if people could pick one that that would be the one that I would recommend learn how to do a soften startup and people listening. Can Google it. I can, like, send you a link to it if you want to put it in the show notes or some notes or something, but, yeah, it's important.

Agi Keramidas: 20:12

If you enjoy this episode, can you think of one person that would find it useful and share it with them? I'd really appreciate it, and you will also be adding value to people you care about. And now let's get back to the episode.

Heather Shannon: 20:27

Learn how to do a soft and startup, and people listening, can Google it, but, yeah, it's important.

Agi Keramidas: 20:32

It definitely is. And you know, it actually is a great beginning starting of other conversations, not only this that we're talking about, it really creates. It's a safer environment, without the other person feeling attacked, as you know in your first example, which was it is easy to free to get into the defensive like this, and in all kinds of you know, discussions, not not only

Heather Shannon: 21:06

you're so correct about that it's like the same skills, whether you're talking to your boss or your child or your friend or Grandma, you know. So like, take the time to learn the skills my and my my favorite book, if people want to go more in depth with the communication skills, is 10 lessons to transform your marriage, and that's by John and Julie Gottman, who run the Gottman Institute. It's very concrete, like when I first read it many years ago, because, like, you know, like most people, I did not grow up in a household where I saw healthy conflict resolution, and so you kind of hear this idea of, like, healthy communication, and you're like, What is that like? I know I'm supposed to, like, listen, probably, and, like, not yell, but there's so much more to it. And so this book does a transcript. It takes like, 10 different couples going through areas of conflict, and it writes word for word what they say, and then it gives them a plus or a minus for every single thing that they say. And then it tells you why it's giving them a plus or a minus. And so for me, it was just like, like, the clouds have cleared, and like, now I know what healthy communication is. So I love that book. Some of the references are a bit dated. It's an older book, but it's like, if you can get beyond the content of the conflicts that they're they're showing in the book, and focus on how to communicate, it's just amazing.

Agi Keramidas: 22:28

Thank you. That is, it sounds like a very interesting book, and it reminded me, I have not read it or yet anyway, but I have read men are from Mars women, men are from Venus, or The Five Love Languages. What I find very interesting when I read books like that is that I realized that whatever is happening with me or with us, with my relationship, is not very unique to us. It is something that happens common and that takes off such a big pressure when you realize that there's nothing wrong with me or with us? There are millions people that have a similar issues. Absolutely,

Heather Shannon: 23:14

yeah, absolutely. And I agree with you, it's so helpful to be like, Ah, I guess my problems are not so special, you know. And like, maybe this is solvable. And like, maybe people can help me, and it's just a matter of, you know, learning a few new skills.

Agi Keramidas: 23:26

Yeah, definitely. And another thing that came to my mind when you were sharing the names of yours, then those nine steps, it's there were many, many commonalities the way you were saying even titles of them with a personal development program, 100%

Heather Shannon: 23:47

like, that's basically what I do. It's personal development for your sex life. Yes, yeah,

Agi Keramidas: 23:53

excellent. What to wrap up this topic, because I would also like to discuss briefly about the other thing I said in the beginning. But to wrap up now this brief conversation we had about rekindling that spark in in the sex life, is there something final that you would share with the listener? Perhaps, I think

Heather Shannon: 24:20

part of it like it's a two way street, so I'll say that, like you kind of need to know what works for you sexually, and then be able to communicate it. And I think that it's fascinating that so many people get naked with someone and, like, put their parts in each other, but we don't want to talk about it like, but we can't say, like, the word penis, you know, or like, we can't say the word vulva, you know? It's like, that's, that's just a step too far. Heather, now you're, that's crazy talk, you know? And it's like, no, we need to be able to say things, you know. It's like, if you want to say, hey, I don't want direct touch on my clitoris, that's too sensitive, or hey, I'm not really into butt stuff, or, Hey, I do want to try 69 it's like, you have to be able to say the words, right? And so obviously I'm a great example, because I ran away from my mom in the coals because I couldn't even discuss a bra size. And obviously I've come a very long way. So it's like, wherever you're at on your journey, you can get more comfortable, and you can get more comfortable by listening to podcasts. Podcast and actually, I'm just going to give a general shout out to podcasts. Podcasts are one of the very few spaces where sexual information is not censored, so So I do think it's a great place to look for sex education. In that sense, there's also great books, you know. I think a good starter book for people is, come as you are by Emily nagoski. It's a great book, and she starts out her is either the book or the workbook. It might be the workbook, but she starts out by, like, making people say sex words, because she's like, we're so uncomfortable. And even, like, when people hire me, they're like, tiptoeing around saying the words, and so I think just getting comfortable with that can be important on the pathway to passion. Definitely.

Agi Keramidas: 26:14

Yeah, it makes me think how deeply conditioned we are. Many of us are with avoiding words or such such a big topic. It's

Heather Shannon: 26:24

just like, it's just your body, just like, you know, you have an ear and you have a butt and you either have, you know, a penis or a vagina, or perhaps there's actually, we could get into a whole other topic about people who are intersex. We don't

Agi Keramidas: 26:37

have time for that. So let's talk then also Heather, because that's something I'm very intrigued by. You talk about bringing consciousness to sexuality, and I would like to hear your thoughts of that, and also this. You know, obviously when you say consciousness to sexuality, for me anyway, the way I hear this phrase is deeply spiritual. Is spiritual phrase more than you know consciousness as perception of reality. So I would like to hear your thoughts about sexuality, spirituality, all this, and we'll take it from them.

Heather Shannon: 27:27

So I mean, part of why I do this work is because I do think sexuality exists a bit in the shadows still, and that's kind of been reflected in our conversation up to this point. It's like, oh, we're not supposed to say certain words. Or, you know, if I am sexually active, that makes me a slut, and then I'm gonna hurt my reputation. Um, I've been noticing on Facebook, this is super random, but I've been looking and I'm not getting married anytime soon, but I've been looking at, like, wedding dress reels on Facebook. It's like, oh, I'm pretty dress. And the comments, oh, my goodness, people are like, Ah, man. Like, why? Why buy the cow when you get the milk for free? Or she's just showing it all off. Or, like, this one looks like a nightgown, and that's so classless. And I was like, my goodness, like the amount of judgment is like, no wonder people are uncomfortable, you know, wearing what they want to wear, or doing what they want to do, when it's just like someone making a different dress, choices like drawing all of this, like judgment somewhat related to, like, sexuality, or how much you're showing your body. So there's, there's just a lot of that still. And so I think that other areas of personal growth might be a little bit more comfortable. Sometimes, also, people have a lot of sexual trauma, you know, there's, there's a lot of that. Sometimes people are comfortable enough to talk about it. Sometimes they're not, but that can be understandably, like a scary thing to to look at. And so I think there's just a lack of looking at it. And because of that, there's these stories we have about, like, this is what's okay sexually, this is what's not. And to me, like becoming more conscious is like waking up to the stories, you know, like you're waking up and being like, oh my gosh, this was just a story. It's like, not even real. This was just what I've internalized in my mind. And then sometimes that's lifted, and you're like, oh wow. Like, this really, this really opens possibilities up for me, and like, what my love life and sex life can look like, and it could be someone you know, not even owning to themselves that they're bisexual because that was painful, you know, or that would mean judgment, or that would mean being ostracized from your family. And it could be like, Oh, wow, owning this, realizing it's okay and I don't have to adopt other people's beliefs. Maybe this is something to explore. Maybe this is something where I get to know myself better and, you know, express myself more authentically. So I think there's a lot of layers of that, of sort of the stories, and I look at it like shadow integration. You know, it's like there's a lot of things maybe existing in the shadows, and we wake up to that and then we integrate.

Agi Keramidas: 30:08

Yeah. Does that make sense? It does. Can you tell me a bit more about the energetic elements of sexuality?

Heather Shannon: 30:18

So one, I mean, one of the methods that I do with people is called internal family systems. I don't know if you've covered that on the show at all, but I'll explain it a little bit. So it's a psycho spiritual approach, and it does work a lot with energy. So you can think of it, it's a type of parts work. So, you know, inner child, inner critic, that kind of thing. And it's this idea that, like we are multitudes, we contain multitudes. You. Now and and what I'm seeing with some clients is like, sometimes they might have a part that is like squirmy about sex, and it's maybe like a child like part. And so we can tune into the energy of that through this approach, where you can start by even noticing, okay, like, what does that feel like in my body when this sort of like squirmy child part is like, ew, sex, you know, or like, like, you know, like, has some kind of reaction. And so it might be like, Oh, I noticed sort of a butterfly feeling in my stomach, or I notice sort of an adrenaline feeling of like fear. And so you can notice those physical sensations. And then once you kind of tune into that, we can talk to the part, right? So it's like, it's a part of you, but we can talk to it kind of like it's its own little separate energy being. And I think it could be kind of a fun exercise, because you're able to be a little bit more like imaginative. And sometimes people are like, I feel like I'm just making this up. I'm like, that's fine. It still works. It's okay if you just feel like you're making it up. But the parts can often share some things that people are surprised by, and so I think like going about finding information in this way, parts might share. Well, you know, when you were five, your parent caught you masturbating and shamed you for it. And so now you know, now we know that's not okay, that like sexual touch is not okay. And so it might be like, Oh, interesting. Okay, so you How do you feel about doing your job of being squirmy and keeping sex away? And the part might have a feeling about it. It usually does. It might be like, Oh, I like doing my job. This is very important. You just stay away from sex. Or it might be like, Well, I'm kind of exhausted, and I realize this is like hurting your marriage. And so then we kind of work with helping the part shift, and the idea of ifs and what makes it unique from other types of part work is that we're connecting the parts with our self energy. So our self energy is like our higher consciousness, and it's calm and creative and spacious, and it's not attached to an outcome, and it has clarity, and it has this sense of just feeling connected to, sort of the the oneness of the universe. And so an analogy for it that I really like is thinking of your self energy like the sun, and then it can, like, kind of shine its rays on like all of the parts of your system, and like, help them feel safe and help them feel understood and taken care of, kind of like an internal parent, and so that relationship between the self and the part is, what is healing? There's, there's more to it, but we don't have time for all of it. Does that kind of answer your question? It

Agi Keramidas: 33:41

gives me an idea of how much depth there is to it. But thank you very much. It was, it was great, even getting a simple understanding in this little time. No, that's great. Thank you, Heather. Before I wrap up and some with some final quick questions I have, where do you want to direct the listener who has been fascinated by the conversation and wants to find, yeah,

Heather Shannon: 34:12

I think one of the best ways to connect, I have a freebies page for people. So if they go to my website, which is just my name, Heather shannon.co so it's Heather shannon.co and they click on the freebies page, I have actually have actually have six different freebies on there, but they're kind of designed for people who are feeling like they're in a rut, or like sex has become a chore to kind of really help you get out of sort of the confusion and the fear of like how this is impacting your relationship, and start educating yourself. So when people sign up for any of those, they'll also be added to my email list, and then I have sort of an introductory sequence where I share, like, here's my podcast and here's my socials, and you can, you know, here's how you can start solving some of these issues, and here's some resources that are available to you. So I think that's usually the best way for people to get started.

Agi Keramidas: 35:07

That's great. Thanks. Yeah, and Heather, two final quick questions, and the first one is, what does personal development mean to you?

Heather Shannon: 35:17

Oh, you know, it's interesting, because I think of growth like growth is the first word that comes to mind, and at least with my own journey, it just feels like growth is inevitable, like it just feels almost like being pulled in a direction. And so I think maybe initially I'm because I think there's an interesting dynamic with push energy versus pull energy. And for me, like. Spiritually. It feels better when I'm feeling pulled instead of trying to make something happen, you know. And so it feels like I'm being pulled. And so I don't always know the growth might look different. Like, right now I'm taking an improv class, you know, and I'm finding, like, oh, there's some really interesting growth here, even though it's not therapy or coaching, I'm still out of my comfort zone. I'm still learning. I'm still connecting with new people. So, yeah, so I think growth is everything. I think a lot of it is your lens on it. It's like, Are you open minded? Are you curious? Are you looking for the growth in each experience? Yeah,

Agi Keramidas: 36:23

that's great. A hypothetical question, sure, if you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self? Yeah, that's one piece of advice you would give.

Heather Shannon: 36:32

Oh, gosh. I think kind of staying on her topic is, I think I would want to impart some like confidence to her. You know, college was sort of a tough time for me. I also might have told her to transfer colleges, but to, like, not count yourself out in terms of dating. You know, I think that that was a time I was struggling with, like, I don't feel attractive and no one's gonna flirt with me. And you know, what I realized looking back was that I just took myself out of the game. You know, it wasn't that other people were rejecting me. I was pre rejecting myself, so I think that's something that we can be aware

Agi Keramidas: 37:09

of. Heather, I want to thank you very much for this conversation. It was my real pleasure. I want to wish you all the very best in carrying on with your mission, with what it is, and I think it's very important. I will leave it to you for your parting words and some wisdom, perhaps to the listeners that we have been talking about all this time that maybe they have lost the spark in their sexual life. Yeah,

Heather Shannon: 37:42

I think my advice would be, just get started. You don't need to take a big step. You just need to take a step. So, you know, if you're, if you're busy and it's hard to squeeze things in, maybe you find an audio book or another podcast. If you know you have more time, maybe you're like, great. I'm gonna, you know, set up weekly discussions with my partner, and we're gonna start working on this together. But just get started. Take some stuff.

Agi Keramidas: 38:13

I hope you have found this episode enlightening, and I ask for one simple, quick favor, if you like this podcast, think of someone else you know who might find it useful and share it with them by doing so you'll not only help the podcast grow, but also add value to people you care about. So thank you, and until next time, stand out don't fit in.