#502 Why “just push through it” advice keeps entrepreneurs disconnected from their internal guidance, and the 3 mistakes high-achievers make under pressure, with Carly Pepin.

What if your biggest business challenge is actually your greatest opportunity for personal growth?

In today’s fast-paced, high-pressure world, intelligent and driven professionals often find themselves overwhelmed by internal and external challenges. But what if those obstacles aren't setbacks at all? What if they're powerful feedback mechanisms pointing toward deeper alignment and lasting fulfillment?

* Discover how anxiety, frustration, and even external business chaos can serve as internal guides toward clarity and growth.

* Learn a practical, real-world approach to identifying the root causes of professional problems by reframing them through the lens of self-awareness.

* Explore how recognizing the emotional patterns in leadership and business can transform reactivity into inspired, objective decision-making.

Listen now to uncover how your business challenges can become the most direct path to purpose-driven growth and personal mastery.

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KEY POINTS AND TIMESTAMPS:

03:50 - Carly's Turning Point: From External Blame to Internal Clarity

06:36 - Understanding Your Body and Business as Feedback Systems

08:03 - Emotional Triggers and Strategic Misalignment

10:43 - The Importance of Digging to the Root Cause

14:26 - Balancing Emotional Highs and Lows in Business

19:26 - Fulfillment vs. Elation: Redefining “Feeling Good”

22:55 - Practical Tools to Move Beyond Emotional Reactions

28:43 - Defining Personal Development and Purpose

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MEMORABLE QUOTE:

"It doesn't look like it now, but you got this and everything is perfect the way it is. You'll see it later, but don't worry, you're right on track."

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VALUABLE RESOURCES:

Carly Pepin's website: https://westcoastgrowthadvisors.com/

Mastery Seekers Tribe: https://masteryseekerstribe.com

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🎙️ Want to be a guest?

Message Agi on PodMatch: https://www.podmatch.com/member/personaldevelopmentmastery

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Personal development inspiration, self help insights, and actions to implement for self improvement and living with purpose.

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Transcript

Agi Keramidas: 0:00

What if your biggest professional challenge is actually your greatest opportunity for personal growth, revealing deeper truths about who you are and guiding you to align with fulfilment? Welcome to personal development mastery, the podcast that helps intelligent, busy professionals develop self mastery and discover their calling so you can thrive in a fulfilling, purposeful life. I'm your host, Agi Keramidas, and this is episode 502 in today's fast paced world, we often find ourselves overwhelmed by challenges, both external and internal. But what if those obstacles aren't setbacks at all? What if they are feedback mechanisms pointing toward alignment and fulfilment? By listening to this episode, you are going to discover how these perceived obstacles can serve as internal guides towards clarity and growth. You will also find out the three mistakes high achievers make when they are under pressure, and you will learn a practical approach to identifying the root causes of professional problems. If you are an entrepreneur seeking deeper meaning in your work, or a leader navigating business challenges, then this episode is for you before we dive in. If you have been resonating with these conversations and feel like you are at crossroads in your life, I offer one to one coaching to help you gain clarity and step into your next chapter with confidence. If that sounds interesting, reach out to me and let's have a conversation, and now let's get started with the episode. Today. It is my real pleasure to speak with Carly peppin. Carly, you are an international speaker consultant and expert in human behaviour and strategic business growth with over 15 years of experience, you are passionate about helping leaders align their business growth with personal fulfilment by transforming internal challenges into catalysts for success. Kelly, I'm delighted to have you with me today. Welcome,

Carly Pepin: 2:38

yeah, thank you for having me. I'm looking forward to it

Agi Keramidas: 2:42

me too, and let me straight away. Then say that what I would like to explore today with you is, how can I will say our listeners, and by that, I will explain intelligent, driven individuals. So how can she or he use the challenges that they face, generally, but mainly in business, the challenges they face in business as a tool or a mirror, if you want, for personal growth and in simple words, what I wanted to discuss is, you know, understanding the feedback we get from the challenges that we face before we go there, I would like you to share some key defining moment, perhaps from your journey that is relevant to this. So we can then speak about that in particular, yeah,

Carly Pepin: 3:44

yeah, yeah. This is a really inspiring topic, and definitely important, I know, for business owners, because we are not short of challenges, so it's helpful to understand them to a greater degree. So yeah. So for myself, when I had first started, before I'd started this business and kind of gone on that journey. I was living in Los Angeles, and I actually love the city. Now. It's one of my favourite places to live, definitely on this planet, and I've gotten to travel a lot, and I've lived a couple places, but this is still my favourite place to live. But before, I hated it, and I just assumed that my challenges and my anxiety and my depression were here because of the city that I lived in and the people in it, and all this fun stuff that I was blaming it for. So I made a decision to move, and when I moved, I decided that the best option was to, apparently, go as far away as possible, which was Australia. And once I got there, I'm all by myself, by the way, now I'm all by myself. All my problems are gone, which I realised were distractions from everything that was actually happening inside me. And that's when I realised it wasn't on the outside that the issues were. It was on the inside. So all those challenges I was having in business and life, it was all actually coming from the inside, not the outside. And having that visceral experience of kind of ripping everything away was really helpful for me. To start working on it, and I had to take a deep dive into how I was living my life, what I was doing on a day to day basis. And what I started to do is I started to get to know myself more, understand what my unique core values were, what my unique purpose was, and even the even just getting those small details and starting to restructure and reframe my life and even business around those things on a daily basis, started to rapidly clear up my own anxiety, and then the depression was gone as well. And it's pretty amazing, because, like, I mean, some sometimes people will say they're like, oh, I want to get rid of my anxiety forever. And I'm like, I don't I love my anxiety because it pops up every time I get off track and I certainly like, I'll literally, like, be trying to do something that I'm not meant to be doing, and I get anxiety, and I step back, and I'm like, I hear you. I hear you. I got it. What am I doing right now? And I'll pay attention, and I'm like, why are you doing this? Because I thought I should, I thought I had to. I thought I was supposed to, right? And it's like, stay focused on the core values of the company, stay focused on your own core values and quit getting distracted. And that's beautiful. I get anxiety when I get distracted and go the wrong direction, so it's quite a gift in my perception. Yeah, listen to your body. We all have our own unique quirks that give us that feedback. But that's when I really started to understand that, like even those personal symptoms are also giving us symptoms that can relate to what's going on in our life, in our business,

Agi Keramidas: 6:30

it is indeed great that you have this kind of guiding system or reminders you refer to the anxiety if you Stay off of track. And I just realised now that you say that I have something similar, also, which is small accidents. So wherever I stay off track, I will hurt myself, not not a lot, but enough for me to pay attention. So it is I have a different thing. So it's great to for it, to understand what what the body talks about. And you know you said, and I think that's really the important that you had the realisation that the issues were on the inside and not on the outside. And that's always the case, and it's many people choose not to see the truth of that, because in some ways it is more difficult. It certainly is more difficult to assume responsibility and realise that it's inside. In any case, this is a very interesting topic, so thank you for bringing it up. I don't know if you want to add anything to that before we before I change the sound too, but it is very interesting. So

Carly Pepin: 7:49

yeah, and I think as human beings, we're quite fascinating. We kind of discount how often the internal affects, like the external right, like we could even be building something within a company, and our emotions are also dictating the direction it goes again. This is why we have the external dynamics where it's like we work on the business strategy. We make sure the strategy is clear, the core values are clear, and make sure it's aligned right. And then it's kind of refine repeat, refine repeat, refine repeat, refine repeat. But sometimes we get so off track. And we're either getting off track because something very challenging happened, and we're resenting the situation, and we're avoiding it because we're emotional about it, in a sense, right? We're emotional, we're resentful, we're frustrated, so now we're trying to avoid it, and that can change the trajectory of potentially your company and what you're doing, which still doesn't mean your visions off before, just means you went through a challenge, and we don't even notice it because we're so frustrated. But then there's also, like, shiny object syndrome, right? And that's an infatuation where you might go and see someone doing something else, and you're like, well, now I want to do that. And then all of a sudden you're going completely off the trajectory again of your core values, your vision, your mission and your purpose, because all of a sudden you have an infatuation with something which is another emotion, and it's it's funny, because we want to be positive, that this would be an overly positive you have so many staffed associations of too many positives, you're not actually seeing the truth of the situation. Because, in reality, every challenge has supports, and every support has challenge. That's why we say every failure there's success in it, and that's easy for us to see. We want to see it because we don't like pain. But as humans, we're addicted to pleasure. However, every support, every success, has some failure in it, because you can't build something without destroying something else simultaneously. You know, it's quite interesting. I got to go through that with one of my clients during COVID. He during COVID, he just decided to jam while other sectors in his industry, other businesses and stuff in his industry, were shutting down and taking a break. He jammed, and he jammed hard. And he was really getting, like, over excited about the pleasure of success, and we kind of got to go through and I said, well, as you're starting to get the success, I was like, where are all these extra cost. Consumers coming from you know, I was like, who was servicing them before? And he started to see businesses close. And I was like, Can you see what is also happening? I was like, you're building your company like crazy. I was like, but it's also taking business away from other people as well. And it's a really humbling thing to realise that you can't have one without the other, but not having that illusion helps us to move forward with more objectivity, so that we're not run by our emotions and we can actually make like, more objective decisions. You know?

Agi Keramidas: 10:30

Thank you, Carl. Let's talk about, you know, what we really started talking about, and that was the actual feedback, or understanding the feedback that we get from the challenges. I think, in a way, the reason why we should look for them as the feedback should be obvious, but please mention the the importance of it in the beginning, and then give me an overview of how one would look at the challenges, particularly professional or business challenges, as a catalyst for growth.

Carly Pepin: 11:18

Yeah, so whenever we're having business challenges. Again, our business is also a feedback. You know, I kind of got to give you example of how my body is a feedback. You gave one about how your body gives us feedback. But remember, your business is also a feedback mechanism as well. It also has symptoms within it that's trying to show you that something's awry, right? So, whenever we're having these challenges in our business, it's like, it's, what do we do? What questions are we asking? And instead of just looking at the surface of it, it's like, just keep going with those questions. You know, sometimes I'm in a call for an hour, and we ask question after question after question after question after question after question until you can find the route, right? Because it was interesting. I was talking to a colleague of mine, and there was one company that it was like, all this problem was happening with, like shipping, and people were getting all the wrong items. And it was crazy, because it was really impacting, like, their returns, and they were losing money, and then all of a sudden, when you get back to the very core of it, like, instead of going back and being, like, shipping, fix the problem, right? Like, why are you sending out the wrong stuff? What they found out is they just kept digging and digging and digging and digging, and it took them a little while to find that one printer that they had was printing incorrectly. And it was like printing like the barcodes and the things wrong. So everyone was getting everything else wrong, and all of a sudden, it's just, all they had to do was replace, like one of the, I forget what it's called, but one of the parts in the machine right. And then all of a sudden, their whole problem is fixed. So it's like, that's what I say. You don't just want to go in there and say, Hey, we have a problem. You just need to make sure that you're shipping it to the right place, because we can't do this anymore. You diagnose the crap out of it, until you get to the root cause. You know, yeah, diagnose the crap out of it. Get to the root cause, because it might be something, in this case, it was something tiny that was causing huge, huge, huge ripples, right? And so that's why we really want to pay attention to that. And that's part of moving beyond our emotions, where, as business owners, sometimes we can get emotional about those dynamics. And I've seen this too, you know, I've worked in environments where it's this way, where when something's going wrong, they get emotional because their company is impacted, and that's you not working on the internal side. And so all of a sudden you're emotional on the outside. But then in that case, people are usually trying to run around and correct the problem on the surface because they're so scared, and everyone's trying to make it not their fault because they don't want to get in trouble, right? And so when we have those emotions, we can't really lead people to find the root cause of the problem. They don't want to look for it. They're too scared to get in trouble. And so that's part of us balancing our own internal dynamic as well. You know, because as leaders, it's like, how do we guide people and inspire them to search for the root to search for the actual problem, which is interesting and another really fun one, which is kind of just feedback like that we get from individuals and people. So, you know, I talked a little bit about how we as humans are a little bit addicted to pleasure, right? We want to avoid pain. Yeah, for sure, we also are

Agi Keramidas: 14:12

smiling, because you say

Carly Pepin: 14:15

a lot, it's a pretty good habit of ours. It's a solid habit. So we all have it, by the way, just varying degrees at different times. But what you'll notice as well is that pleasure comes in the form of being proud and being puffed up about ourselves, like we want to be great. That's also the addiction that we have, and that's the pleasure we want to be better. We want to be amazing, and we often want to be better than other people, right? The truth is, we're all equal. That's actually the genuine truth. So we don't want to be worse than someone else, or less advanced or less knowledgeable, or less this or less that. We want to be better. We want to be the smartest in the room. That's that pleasure addiction. Here's the cool part, right? We're getting feedback on this on a regular basis, and so let's say you're at work and you had a great. Day, right? You had a great day, an amazing day. All day long, you accomplished something awesome. Your clients are telling you, you're just the best ever, and then all of a sudden you come home and your romantic partner just slams you, you know? And you're like, What is going on? Like, you're such a Debbie Downer, I had such a great day. That is actually a structure in place for us when we get too proud for something to come in, to humble us, to bring us back down to size. Because guess what? You got a super ego. You got so puffed up about yourself. You got so addicted to that dopamine rush, that pleasure of being puffed up by others, that someone had to come in and be like, Hey, you're still human. Get off that high horse, get off that pedestal. Let me remind you of all the stuff that you're mucking up right now, right? And so it's funny, because we forget that, and we get upset with criticism, and you'll see the reverse as well. If you had an awful day at the office, if things were a nightmare, if just so many failures and it was exhausting, you'll come home and those are the days that somehow your partner is, like, really supportive, and like, connects with you, and you're like, This is what I wanted the other day, you know? But you can't have it the other day right now, you put yourself in the pit. You put yourself below homeostasis, right? So before you were above homeostasis, now you're below homeostasis, and you have someone coming in to bring you back where just to centre, that's all, that's all we're doing. We're just getting to centre. So if you work on balancing those internal prides that you get addicted to, but also those eternal shame simultaneously, you have less of the volatility in other areas. Sometimes it'll happen at home, but it also happens at the office, and you'll see it on certain days where you get puffed up by maybe a superior or maybe get puffed up by clients or something else, or maybe even the outside world, and then you're getting slammed, like over here. And it's fun, because you can see this in politics is so obvious, where you see people putting Elon Musk on a pedestal, right now, Donald Trump on a pedestal, but you also see simultaneously, people putting them in a pit, right so you're watching this balance of like, don't get too high on yourself. Don't forget this also exists. And we're going to remind you you're just human, you know. And both are necessary, both the criticism and the support. And if they get too low on themselves, and they're judging themselves, which everyone does, by the way, like they'll attract all those praisers to like, bring them back up. And you're watching The dichotomy like live in politics right now, which is really fun, but you can also watch it in your life, which is really important.

Agi Keramidas: 17:28

It certainly happens. Thank you for this. It certainly happens in life that the bad things and good things seem to happen in pairs, somehow and once, once someone starts to reflect back in the life, it is quite, you know, obvious, and when you were describing about the the prides and the same sort of the pleasure and the pain, or those to the the image that comes to my mind in these cases is, you know, the pendulum that will inevitably swing from side to side. And the more we are, the more we look at the actual final movement. And not that the whole thing that the higher up you go, the less movement there is. So the lower down you are, the more you see these extremes, or they can feel like extremes anyway, so it's a great, you know, reminder that both are part of life. Yes, of course, we all are wired to seek pleasure and avoid pain. But on the other hand, we have to realise that it is inevitable to have pain in life and it is also impossible to have only pleasure. So it's, you know, it's, it's some things that life is like that, and as an extension, of course, a business or elements of our life or our relationship will match that or mirror that to some extent.

Carly Pepin: 19:10

And this is the really cool part too, because what like, you don't have to get rid of feeling good. I just like, I'd like to change how we view that, right? So instead of trying to, like, feel good, get those dopamine hits and get all the pleasure and get those manic states of, like, elation, right, which you can crash after it's like, going up on a roller coaster, eventually hit the peak and you go down, down, down, down, down, down. That's why people will say, after they go to those events where they really hype you up, they'll be like, I have a hangover the next couple days. That's because you puffed yourself up so high, and you got yourself so elated that your body crashed and burned to balance you out, to get back to equilibrium. But fulfilment and inspiration is very different, because that you feel energised, you feel alive, you love your life. And the funny thing is, is. There's you already see the pleasure and the pain and the pain and the pleasure. Like, in that state, there's something in each individual that's so inspiring to them, right? Which is often what we bring into our companies. By the way, I love doing this with with owners, where we can connect that thing to why they built the company. And they're like, oh my gosh, it makes sense. This is my life, and I'm like, it is your life. You don't just build a business. And it's not random. Sometimes people think it's random because they haven't made the link before. It's not random for anyone. It's not and the cool thing about that is that's where inspiration lies, and then you're energised in the reality that you're gonna go seek a goal that you know is painful. There's pleasure in seeking that goal and getting that achievement in your business, but you're very aware of the challenges that come along the way. There's no illusions there, and you're going to do it anyways. You're looking forward to going through that pain, because the pleasure and the fulfilment that you get along the way is so inspiring to you that it's worth going through that pain. And you don't get burned out there, you don't get exhausted, you don't give up there. And that's why it's so important to understand like yourself and your company simultaneously. Because, yeah, you're part of the living, breathing entity of your company. Let's make sure you're alive and inspired, and let's get you all linked up with whatever you built, and make sure you know it's there, and have that flow down into your employees. Because, I mean, you see it worldwide, like the more people are inspired, the more they sign up for your vision, you know, and the more they want to help you with your vision. So, yeah, there's really inspiring things that you

Agi Keramidas: 21:35

can do. Carly, what I would like to move back to you said you were saying earlier about being able to move beyond our emotions when the crisis or a challenge happens or things go wrong, like that printers printing the wrong barcodes, I would like to ask you to give us something actionable, or perhaps a technique or a tool. Because, you know, it's saying about moving beyond our emotions is one thing, but we all know very well that sometimes even the thought of moving beyond their emotions at that time seems like there is not such thing. We kind of get sucked into the emotion. And so I would like to hear some, something practical, if possible, something that one can do to, you know, regain composure

Carly Pepin: 22:38

Absolutely, first things, first time, to learn how to catch it. So just know that that may take you a little bit of time to learn how to catch when your emotions are kind of going awry, especially when we're starting to get into the proud states or the elated states, because we've been also trained that those are good not realising, like you said, the good's been going with the bad and the Bad's been going with the good all exist simultaneous on time. So when we see it, we don't have to be on the emotional roller coaster. And that's the important part. That's where we can actually, like, just get more accomplished, achieved. And I don't know about you, but I feel better when I'm not on an emotional roller coaster. So when we have challenges, right, things that frustrate us, things that we're struggling with, we want to sit there and ask how it's serving us, and how it's serving what's important to us. I was just working with this, with a CEO who's going through, like, a really challenging lawsuit, right? And part of it, it's like, well, how is this financially empowering you, right? How is this financially empowering you? How is this empowering you in business? How is this empowering you as a leader, and as we're going through it. It's like, okay, then what's missing? And we had a good laugh, because I was like, man, like, they're giving you some great personal development, right? I was like, we actually went through how much he's invested in it. And I was like, was that a worthwhile investment for what you got out of it? And he's like, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I was like, and can you keep going through it, and will you still get more out of it? And he's like, I got this, I got this. And so at first, it's the emotion behind it, and the frustration and the anger, because you're not seeing the gift that these challenges are bringing when you go in and see the gift. Guess what? Now, when they're in the courtroom, do you think they're going to be angry, frustrated, yelling and annoyed, or do you think they're just going to sit back and be like, I'm grateful, like, kind of crazy, but I'm actually grateful that I'm going through this and I don't have to be the emotional volatile one, and then the other person's emotionally volatile. It's really a fascinating experience to actually see and witness. And I had someone else who went through this as well, where they were stuck in a court case, and we did some work on this as well, and they cleared it, and they said, I was like, How'd it go? They were in a custody battle with their kids, and this was pretty wild, but they I was like, how did it go? And she's like, it went great. She's like, it didn't matter what he said. I didn't cry, I wasn't frustrated. She just, I said, sat there. I didn't have any emotion. He couldn't impact me at all. And it was like, and he was just off his rocker. He was. Going crazy. The judge looked at him like he was the nut job. He's like, it really helped my my case, and I was, like, awesome, awesome. And so that's what I say. It's like, we want to clear that resentment, because, you know, I'm giving you examples of, like, court cases and stuff, but that also flows into our business as well. And so find out how it's serving you. Find out what gifts it's giving you. And if you say, Carly, I don't know, I can't then you're not looking hard enough keep looking. Look, look, look, look, look, look, look, I will sit there for if I have to do an hour on someone on just one particular thing, just to make sure that they get it and nail it like you're gonna get it and nail it. It's very important for you to actually see how these specific circumstances are serving you, because then you're very objective and they don't impact you emotionally. The other dynamic when we look at that other side, right? Because we have the dichotomy within us that's also wanting to get only the pleasureful situations you'll have, situations that you encounter, and this is where it's a little trickier to catch. But if you're looking at something and you're so elated about it, and it's all good and it's all amazing, you're not asking quality questions on what are some of the challenges that actually come with it, right? And so I was working with an individual, and we were going through the expansion of the business in this very specific way, right? And they're all laid about, and I can tell I was like, Man, this person has not looked at this objectively Yeah, like, they have not, like, not even slightly, and so they're really proud and they're really puffed up, which simultaneously the wife at home is beating them up like crazy because they're all high on I laugh because I say it's like, we get high on our own supply, of, like, our pride, like, getting high on your own supply, my friend. So basically, we go through and you start to ask, what are some of the drawbacks of that? Like, what are some of the drawbacks of what you're doing? Let's look at the other side until you can see there's the equal drawbacks to benefit. And then all of a sudden you get objective. And as we're going through it, like, at the end of it, I was like, how you feel? And they're like, good. And they're, I'm they said, I've realised that the way that I was putting this together like it would have crashed and burned, like it wouldn't have even happened, because I wasn't even looking at the other side, and so I wasn't even planning for these obvious pitfalls that were in the way. And that's what having too much elation can do. It can make you ignore the other side, and that makes you ignore the pitfalls that you can prepare for. So this is like a leadership tool, right? If you're not facing and looking at both sides of things, then you're either ignoring the pitfalls or you're ignoring the strengths. And when you can see both of that, what are you your objective, right? We're just subjective. So those are quality questions that you can ask. And the real trick is starting to be able to catch when you get, like, too high, too low, too high, too low, and that's that's tricky. That's definitely something we're not taught. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas: 27:50

this is indeed, thank you for this tool. It is a tool, and seeing the asking quality questions and seeing the equal benefit of the gift. You refer to it as a gift, and being objective, these are very useful Carly as I will start wrapping things up for today. The first thing I wanted to ask you was, where do you want to direct our listener who wants to find out more?

Carly Pepin: 28:26

Yeah, I'd love them to go to my website, which is West Coast growth advisors.com and they can contact me directly there. They can hop over to LinkedIn, whatever they prefer. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas: 28:37

that's great. And I have also two quick questions, and the first one is, what does personal development mean to you?

Carly Pepin: 28:48

Yes, so personal development, to me, means that we're actually developing a relationship with ourselves. There's nothing missing inside of us, but it's really getting to know who you are, what you're here for the strengths you have like and everything like, everything that's important about you, and kind of really being able to cultivate and craft that in a way that you can create a life that every day you wake up and you say, I get to do this. You know, no matter whether or not it's challenging or not, like it will be challenging. I want you to, I want you to face so many challenges and do so many amazing things in your life and be like I didn't think I could achieve this, but I had more energy doing it because I did what I loved. That's personal development.

Agi Keramidas: 29:30

Indeed. You remind me of what Jim Rohn used to say, it was easier. You wish you were better. Yeah. And Carly, hypothetically, if you could go back in time and meet your 18 year old self, what's one piece of advice? You would tell her, yes,

Carly Pepin: 29:47

it doesn't look like it now, but you got this and everything is is really perfect the way it is. You'll see it later, but don't worry, you're right on track. Yeah. Do.

Agi Keramidas: 30:00

Very nice. I want to thank you so much Carly for this conversation. It was, I believe, enlightening and useful. I'm wishing you all the very best with carry on with your mission and your purpose. I will leave it to you for your part in wisdom to the to the listeners,

Carly Pepin: 30:23

yeah, definitely, really dedicate your life not just to focusing on things on the outside, but also the inside. It's finding that balance of focusing on what's important to you and creating that in the world where you actually realise like how much you can do and what you're capable of. And no purpose. No. Excuse me. No person on this planet is more able to achieve that than someone else. So, yeah, if you don't believe in yourself yet, just go to Courses, go to workshops, teachers, anything possible to make sure that you start to to let that seed plant inside you and and keep it growing. Yeah,

Agi Keramidas: 31:03

I hope you found this episode enlightening. If you have been resonating with these conversations and feel like you are at the crossroads in your life, I offer one to one coaching to help you gain clarity and step into your next chapter with confidence. If that sounds interesting, reach out to me and let's have a conversation. And until next time, Stand out. Don't fit in